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IPv6 Operations (Active WG)
Ops Area: Ignas Bagdonas, Warren Kumari | 2002-Aug-22 —  
Chairs
 
 


IETF-106 v6ops minutes

Session 2019-11-18 1550-1750: Collyer - Audio stream - v6ops chatroom

Minutes

minutes-106-v6ops-00 minute



          Chair slides
          Fred Baker mentioned note well, and that expected presentation from RENU
          had to be canceled because presenter had to defend thesis.
          
          =======================
          Neighbour Cache Entries on First-Hop Routers: Operational Considerations
          Jen Linkova presented slides:
          https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-v6ops-neighbour-cache-entries-on-first-hop-routers-operational-considerations
          
          Dave Thaler: Both have disadvantage. Can you consider a 3rd option where
          you do neighbor discovery on receipt of the first packet?
          Jen: Signaling control plane from data plane is maybe not the best idea.
          Jen: If we can do everything in 6man...
          Fred: How would you approach that.
          Warren Kumari:
          Bob Hinden (as 6man co-chair): If the v6ops WG accepts this then one
          should be preferred.
          Fred (to Bab): Is Jen on your agenda?
          Bob: Yes.
          Jen: Do we want to have a discussion about all options and pick one to
          take to 6man or take all to 6man?
          Fred: I want to leave all discussion of protocol to 6man.
          Warren: Document here is to determine if there is need for a solution.
          Jen: We agreed last time that there is a problem.
          Warren: I think it would be good to ask the room if they think this
          needs solving.
          Fred: We did hum last time and it was loud.
          Fred: We can do another hum. If you think this needs solving, please hum?
          If you disagree?
          
          ========================
          Default IPv6 Local Only Addressing for Non-Internet Devices
          Mark Smith presented slides:
          https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-v6ops-default-ipv6-local-only-addressing-for-non-internet-devices
          
          Jen Linkova: If the device doesn't get any GUA address, now it needs
          a ULA only. What about networks with multiple IPv6 networks? Now they
          need ULA and GUA for this device.
          Mark: Smart Meter manufacturers build devices NOT to be on the Internet.
          Jen - Mark - Jen - Mark
          
          Fernando Gont: Is there any requirement of the CPE router?
          Mark: I realize that I'm effectively requiring
          Fernando: If device were to configure GUA and ULA, you can have a device
          with both, and applications that need ULA could just bind to the ULA.
          Mark:
          Fernando: What has to be on the interface?
          Mark: You might have a light bulb devce that says even though it can do
          certain things, it won't, because it's just a light bulb.
          Fernando: The application should ...
          Dave Thaler: The thing I worry about is when a printer only has a ULA
          and the device looking for it only has GUA.
          Mark: I do think about that.
          Éric Vyncke:
          Mark: We're trying to be incrementally better.
          Jordi: I'm not sure it's so obvious to the vendor whether it needs to get
          on the Internet or not, it may depend on where you install that device
          at a given time. I think this is operationally complex. If we want this
          as a security tool, let's do that at the device firewall level or CE
          firewall or both.
          Andrew : I think we could do better security on CPE and edge. I don't
          trust ...
          Mark: I don't trust the firewall in my router.
          David Somers-Harris: Putting on a non-technical user hat... People often
          don't understand features like "print from the cloud" and understand
          why it doesn't work because it only has a ULA.
          
          ===============================
          464XLAT Optimization for CDNs and Caches
          Jordi Palet presented slides:
          https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-v6ops-464xlat-optimization-for-cdns-and-caches
          
          Fred: Comments?
          Andrew: Considering everything that was said in Montreal about A records,
          what has changed since then?
          Jordi: I think that was for the other part. And I think we have resolved
          that issue. My suggestion is that we need to go to another draft for
          the fake A records.
          Jared Mauch: DoH is shifting DNS away from ISPs. How does that impact
          this?
          Jordi: You will not get advantage of this, but it won't break things.
          Chongfeng Xie:
          Jordi: Those services are not yet IPv6-enabled.
          Chongfeng Xie:
          Jordi: But that's my point. The closed service is not IPv6-enabled so
          it has no impact.
          Fred: An enterprise will often have their own DNS and policies and are
          concerned about DoH and DoT. I think you need to check again if the
          enterprises are concerned.
          Jordi: If you are not using  the optimization, you are not breaking
          anything.
          
          ================================
          IPv6 Point-to-Point links
          Jordi Palet presented slides:
          https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-v6ops-ipv6-point-to-point-links
                
          
          Fred: Comments?  Thank you.
          
          ===============================
          Reaction of Stateless Address Autoconfiguration (SLAAC) to
          Flash-Renumbering Events
          Fernando Gont presented slides:
          https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-v6ops-reaction-of-stateless-address-autoconfiguration-slaac-to-flash-renumbering-events
          
          Barbara Stark: I support moving forward.
          Jen Linkova: I think this is good.
          
          ==================================
          Improving the Reaction of Customer Edge Routers to Renumbering Events
          Fernando Gont presented slides:
          https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-v6ops-improving-the-reaction-of-customer-edge-routers-to-renumbering-events
          
          Jordi: I think you are too optimistic that CPE router vendors will take
          these recommendations. I think this would increase the price of the
          devices, so they won't. I think we should go for a different solution,
          including telling the ISPs to use IPv6 in a different way than IPv4.
          Fernando: But maybe some CPE router vendors will want to do this.
          Andrew: I like what I see here. I don't think the fact that some won't
          do this is a reason not to do this. This gives me something to point at
          when I want vendors to do this.
          Tim Winters: For how long would you do this? Valid lifetime?
          Fernando: Yes.
          Jen: I think it does make sense to certify.
          Jordi: I'm not saying we shouldn't do this. But I think we should also try
          to fix from the other side. We also need better tools from the ISP side.
          Fred: Put something in a RA to indicate "whatever I told you before is
          now invalid".
          Fred: Thank you, Fernando.
          
          Fred: In past years we found it helpful to poll people what they thought
          of a draft.
          Andrew:
          Bernie Volz: You wouldn't want to use a single bit because it can't
          provide enough info.
          Mark Smith: I'm skeptical of the effectiveness of trying to solve this
          problem on the CPE router.
          Fernando: It's not that we think a solution only belongs in one
          place. We're just trying to provide solutions wherever it makes sense.
          
          Dmytro Shytyi : I think your proposal could be applied to other cases.
          Fernando: I agree the document could be more general and not just about
          CPE router.
          
          Fred: Between now and IETF 107 we should try to make progress. I want
          to use first 3 weeks in December and first 3 weeks in January to ask
          questions leading to progress on these drafts. Please feel free to say
          something when I send those emails.
          
          Dmytro Shytyi : Is it possible to present something?
          Fred: There is time if you can give it to me.
          
          



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