V6ops Status PagesIPv6 Operations (Active WG)
Ops Area: Ignas Bagdonas, Warren Kumari | 2002-Aug-22 —Chairs:
IETF-106 v6ops minutes
Session 2019-11-18 1550-1750: Collyer - Audio stream - v6ops chatroom
Chair slides Fred Baker mentioned note well, and that expected presentation from RENU had to be canceled because presenter had to defend thesis. ======================= Neighbour Cache Entries on First-Hop Routers: Operational Considerations Jen Linkova presented slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-v6ops-neighbour-cache-entries-on-first-hop-routers-operational-considerations Dave Thaler: Both have disadvantage. Can you consider a 3rd option where you do neighbor discovery on receipt of the first packet? Jen: Signaling control plane from data plane is maybe not the best idea. Jen: If we can do everything in 6man... Fred: How would you approach that. Warren Kumari: Bob Hinden (as 6man co-chair): If the v6ops WG accepts this then one should be preferred. Fred (to Bab): Is Jen on your agenda? Bob: Yes. Jen: Do we want to have a discussion about all options and pick one to take to 6man or take all to 6man? Fred: I want to leave all discussion of protocol to 6man. Warren: Document here is to determine if there is need for a solution. Jen: We agreed last time that there is a problem. Warren: I think it would be good to ask the room if they think this needs solving. Fred: We did hum last time and it was loud. Fred: We can do another hum. If you think this needs solving, please hum? If you disagree? ======================== Default IPv6 Local Only Addressing for Non-Internet Devices Mark Smith presented slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-v6ops-default-ipv6-local-only-addressing-for-non-internet-devices Jen Linkova: If the device doesn't get any GUA address, now it needs a ULA only. What about networks with multiple IPv6 networks? Now they need ULA and GUA for this device. Mark: Smart Meter manufacturers build devices NOT to be on the Internet. Jen - Mark - Jen - Mark Fernando Gont: Is there any requirement of the CPE router? Mark: I realize that I'm effectively requiring Fernando: If device were to configure GUA and ULA, you can have a device with both, and applications that need ULA could just bind to the ULA. Mark: Fernando: What has to be on the interface? Mark: You might have a light bulb devce that says even though it can do certain things, it won't, because it's just a light bulb. Fernando: The application should ... Dave Thaler: The thing I worry about is when a printer only has a ULA and the device looking for it only has GUA. Mark: I do think about that. Éric Vyncke: Mark: We're trying to be incrementally better. Jordi: I'm not sure it's so obvious to the vendor whether it needs to get on the Internet or not, it may depend on where you install that device at a given time. I think this is operationally complex. If we want this as a security tool, let's do that at the device firewall level or CE firewall or both. Andrew : I think we could do better security on CPE and edge. I don't trust ... Mark: I don't trust the firewall in my router. David Somers-Harris: Putting on a non-technical user hat... People often don't understand features like "print from the cloud" and understand why it doesn't work because it only has a ULA. =============================== 464XLAT Optimization for CDNs and Caches Jordi Palet presented slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-v6ops-464xlat-optimization-for-cdns-and-caches Fred: Comments? Andrew: Considering everything that was said in Montreal about A records, what has changed since then? Jordi: I think that was for the other part. And I think we have resolved that issue. My suggestion is that we need to go to another draft for the fake A records. Jared Mauch: DoH is shifting DNS away from ISPs. How does that impact this? Jordi: You will not get advantage of this, but it won't break things. Chongfeng Xie: Jordi: Those services are not yet IPv6-enabled. Chongfeng Xie: Jordi: But that's my point. The closed service is not IPv6-enabled so it has no impact. Fred: An enterprise will often have their own DNS and policies and are concerned about DoH and DoT. I think you need to check again if the enterprises are concerned. Jordi: If you are not using the optimization, you are not breaking anything. ================================ IPv6 Point-to-Point links Jordi Palet presented slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-v6ops-ipv6-point-to-point-links Fred: Comments? Thank you. =============================== Reaction of Stateless Address Autoconfiguration (SLAAC) to Flash-Renumbering Events Fernando Gont presented slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-v6ops-reaction-of-stateless-address-autoconfiguration-slaac-to-flash-renumbering-events Barbara Stark: I support moving forward. Jen Linkova: I think this is good. ================================== Improving the Reaction of Customer Edge Routers to Renumbering Events Fernando Gont presented slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-v6ops-improving-the-reaction-of-customer-edge-routers-to-renumbering-events Jordi: I think you are too optimistic that CPE router vendors will take these recommendations. I think this would increase the price of the devices, so they won't. I think we should go for a different solution, including telling the ISPs to use IPv6 in a different way than IPv4. Fernando: But maybe some CPE router vendors will want to do this. Andrew: I like what I see here. I don't think the fact that some won't do this is a reason not to do this. This gives me something to point at when I want vendors to do this. Tim Winters: For how long would you do this? Valid lifetime? Fernando: Yes. Jen: I think it does make sense to certify. Jordi: I'm not saying we shouldn't do this. But I think we should also try to fix from the other side. We also need better tools from the ISP side. Fred: Put something in a RA to indicate "whatever I told you before is now invalid". Fred: Thank you, Fernando. Fred: In past years we found it helpful to poll people what they thought of a draft. Andrew: Bernie Volz: You wouldn't want to use a single bit because it can't provide enough info. Mark Smith: I'm skeptical of the effectiveness of trying to solve this problem on the CPE router. Fernando: It's not that we think a solution only belongs in one place. We're just trying to provide solutions wherever it makes sense. Dmytro Shytyi : I think your proposal could be applied to other cases. Fernando: I agree the document could be more general and not just about CPE router. Fred: Between now and IETF 107 we should try to make progress. I want to use first 3 weeks in December and first 3 weeks in January to ask questions leading to progress on these drafts. Please feel free to say something when I send those emails. Dmytro Shytyi : Is it possible to present something? Fred: There is time if you can give it to me.