Lisp Status PagesLocator/ID Separation Protocol (Active WG)
Rtg Area: Alia Atlas, Alvaro Retana, Deborah Brungard | 2009-Apr-28 —Chairs:
IETF-99 lisp minutes
Session 2017-07-17 1330-1530: Berlin/Brussels - Audio stream - lisp chatroom
LISP WG Minutes Monday 17 July 2017 1:30pm Ð 3:30pm - Administration Halpern/Iannone - Blue Sheets - Agenda Bashing - Status reports for WG drafts Update on Draft-ietf-lisp-rfc6830bis & Draft-ietf-lisp-rfc6833bis Ð Albert Cabellos Comment regarding the order of documents need to make advancement in these docs. Joel: Have a timer running on that one, because we have the code points therefore we need to get that one moving. Luigi: Invite everybody to review the code data points and put out all the comments so we can move these forward. Dino: Do you have recommendations on the ones which are currently about to be published to have pointers on these document . They currently point to 6830 and 6833? Joel: No. Let them move. Dino: Ok one of the problems IÕve had is that any new internet draft should point to these drafts? Joel: New work we do should be pointing to these drafts not to the existing. LISP YANG Model - draft-ietf-lisp-yang-05 Ð Fabio Maino No comment or questions LISP Predictive RLOCs - draft-ietf-lisp-predictive-rlocs-00 Ð D. Farinacci/ P. Pillay-Esnault Question from Fred Templin on whether the packets get silently discarded Explanation on the pre-fetching of the source by using the packets that were dropped on the floor so making use of this information Victor: There is directionality in the examples. How about if you are driving in a car east-west and now you go back home in opposite direction. Any thoughts how you can actually express that with your map request and get the right one? Dino: Yes you can two mappings, one for each direction or you can use the circular one or the back and forth and replicate to all of them. There is all kind of things you could do Padma: We can think of these RLOCS being added by a third party that has more information. It is not necessarily the EID end-point itself registering all this info. Dino: Absolutely. I didnÕt make it clear who is registering the RLOC. You may have assumed if you know lisp how LISP works that the endpoints or the XTRs are registering the RLOC but we very much thought that it would be a third party. Victor: That makes sense. It could be for consideration that this would be extremely useful in the 3d space rather than a linear space. Have you thought so? Dino: I could say that my intersection example was 3D in a 2D slide. You can have a plane that moves in 3 D and you would have more nested RLEs. People have asked f we can use this in airplane applications where you donÕt know exactly where you are going. If you know the geospace where the plane is you can just replicate to everything in that space. Padma: Regionality has something we can use. For example if you pass and get detected by radar then may be something like for the next 5 km you will not be changing intersection. Dino: Air traffic control could be the SDN controller. Victor: So that interface is going to be key Dino: Yes. Fred do you have any comments wrt to not knowing your direction precisely? Fred Templin: I do not see why it would not work for a plane in flight of course civil aviation type Luigi: There is always a flight path that the pilots head through and before the information is known before. Dino: It is when they deviate time to time .. Padma: Another example that we used was trains and they will not deviate from the tracksÉ Dino: Yes they are nailed to the ground. Luigi: Just a comment on Slide 14 where you say that Random is when the EID is É Dino: What we meant is that we replicate from a through D and we donÕt know the direction, in which the EID is going in, Padma: Another interesting case is that we say that even thought you have a long list and you can replicate to all. But in cell phone you are handing over from one cell tower to another, so at one point you could restrict that only to the interesting points. All this implies that we have more machinery to update. This is very doable as they have the information anyway. Dino: The way I was going to implement it is to not only send it to B. Discussion on how list pruning É. That what is really important.. Victor: IsnÕt this the case where PadmaÕs comment where the information on where it actually is and that is why you sent to B? Dino: If it is not going to move then you just use regular mechanisms. May be we should prune Random and unpredictable from the list. There is a requirement from somebody else and they are not here to defend it. Dino/Wolfgang Reidel: Discussion on use of geo-coordinate and how the third party may be used to update the list of rlocs. Use of GPS. The map request will take to much time. Dino/Wolfgang/Padma: When a physical move occurs and if we use the normal process we are saying it takes too much time. Here we are bypassing all this. It is an IP problem not a spacial. The closer we keep the replication to the destination. The missing piece is that the moving entity must directly tell the replicator. Dino/Padma: Discussion on late and pre-fetched binding possibility .Use of replication closer to the destination Wolfgang: how may encapsulation on top of this one. I do not care if it is a bit larger. Dino: So you are for making the header largerÉ you need to convince millions of people but agree it might be worth trying out. LISP EID Anonymity - draft-farinacci-lisp-eid-anonymity-02 Ð D. Farinacci/ P. Pillay-Esnault Victor Ð What triggers the change of the EID to next? Dino: It is the policy in the source, whenever it wants to. May be the source will use an EID per TCP session. Albert Ð question regarding the encryption how this can be done with the anon-eid. The signaling should be done without of out of band from lisp Dino- we are working on a document to show how to achieve this in lisp. Luigi Ð Concern that fast change of eid can fill up the cache Dino: There is nothing in the text but what we can do is rate-limiting. May be we should look at scale issues. We need to figure out where to document it. Fabio Ð Consideration on the inference on what the mapping system can do on anonymity. I guess you Consideration for the security section Request for wg doc Ð support in room. No objections Vendor Specific LCAF - draft-rodrigueznatal-lisp-vendor-lcaf-00 - F. Maino Dino Ð OUI should be only from the IEEE list as there are some virtualization companies who assign OUI on their own Request for wg Adoption Ð Support in the room. No objections. A simple BGP-based Mobile Routing System for the Aeronautical Telecommunication Network Ð F. Templin Fred: The data plane is encapsulation of ipv6 over ipv6. We could use the LISP encapsulation. Arrow uses the Generic UDP encapsulation or GUE but arrow could use the LISP encapsulation. Padma: I know you said you do not want to drop any packets. How do you optimize your routes and forwarding, or you do not care about it? By not sending it on an optimize route you are not sure that you will receive these packets. Fred: In stable state your bgp peering between these core ASBR are bring maintained by TCP keepalives. Rely on TCP to maintain the link up. We are worried about initial packet loss as this may be the last packet that plane ever sends. From what I understand about lisp is that the ITR holds on the packet until it gets a reply back and then sends the packet. First of all when it gets the map reply back, it canÕt know without testing it first that the path the ITR to the ETR is a working path. It cannot know that the forwarding path works. Dino. You said that the applications use TCP connections will be up ahead of time and therefore those packet drops happened on syn packets thatÕs going to happen way before the data is going to need to go over it. Fred: The TCP connections do not go to airplane. The TCP is only between the BGP core routers. Dino: Are they set up ahead of time? Fred: Yes same as BGP Peering. Padma: So you are relying on the BGP keepalive to ensure that the packet makes it. The moment you sent the packet down from the plane you have no guarantee that there is anything up. Fred: The stability of BGP is going to be based on the fact that the ASBR are not moving. When an EID prefix come to the xtr the first time and it needs to inject that EID prefix in the BGP routing system and then get propagated to the core ASBR but they do not go further. So very few nodes need to be updated. Padma: Yes this reminds me of OSPF. But you are have no control whether these connections can go down. Well there is no guarantee. Fred: you are right; this is the same thing that happens in a BGP network. Fred/..: Discussion on neighbor discovery in arrow relying ipv6 neighbor discovery. Albert : Regarding the first packet loss, before we populate the map-cache is that we send it to the proxy ITR that is equivalent to the router in slide. Fred:.. router has full knowledge of the IDS topology. ICAO 9896 doc describes the ATN. has a sub group mobility and we meet on 3 times per year. They want to work on a solution for this year. FAA, European and other aviation orgÉ Fred: Lisp does not run on the airplanes but only on the ground. Wolfgang/Fred: Some discussion on a simple solution on the airplanes Victor: Are you adding mobility semantics to BGP? Fred: It is like layer 2 mobility and it does not get propagated into BGP. But it go from one stub AS to another Stub AS then it gets propagation into BGP. Macromobility and micromobility if you will. Victor: Are you proposing to use community attributes for the macro level? Joel: So nothing special for mobility Fred: discussion on slides for plane having 2 bgp routes. <É> With the ground base lisp will have to update the MS. Discussion on BGP scale on million to ten thousands of planes Padma: the question is really about the converging time of bgp. Fred: The number of routers on the core of is limited to the order of ten. Joel: They have a very constrained environment and they are designing it for a very specific purpose. Victor: Do you see the pink cloud as 10 routers over the world? Fred: Good question. The pink cloud is what we call the inter network. It is subdivided into regions. Whether it would be partitioned or not is all up in the air. Concerns regarding regional partition depending on countries USA, Europe or China. Victor: a very interesting use case Luigi: How to make the different mapping system talk to each other? They have the possibility to handle specific EID requests. Wolfgang: Discussion on live-live feeds.