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Int Area: Suresh Krishnan, Terry Manderson | 2013-Oct-25 —  

IETF-100 dnssd minutes

Session 2017-11-15 0930-1200: Canning - Audio stream - dnssd chatroom


minutes-100-dnssd-00 minute

          DNSSD WG Agenda
          IETF100, Singapore
          Wednesday, November 15, 2017
          9:30-12:00 Local Time
          Canning Room
          Chairs: David Schinazi, Tim Wicinski (sitting in for Tim Chown)
          Minutes: Barbara Stark, Bjoern Metzdorf
          Jabber: Mikael Abrahamsson
          Chairs' Introduction
          Chairs, 5 mins
          Report on the Last Call for draft-ietf-dnssd-hybrid
          Stuart Cheshire, 10 mins
          Update on draft-ietf-dnssd-push and draft-ietf-dnsop-session-signal
          Stuart Cheshire, 20 mins
             https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dnsop-session-signal (dnsop)
          Update on documents created before IETF 99
          Stuart Cheshire, 20 mins
          Report on the DNSSD testing at the IETF 100 Hackathon
          Stuart Cheshire, 15 mins
          Ted Lemon, 30 mins
          Toerless Eckert, 15 mins
          DNS-SD Privacy drafts
          Stuart Cheshire, 30 mins
          Chairs' Conclusion
          Chairs, 5 mins
          Chair Slides
          David presented the slides.
          Round of applause from the room to thank Ralph for his years of service
          as chair.
          Agenda was not bashed.
          Report on the Last Call for draft-ietf-dnssd-hybrid
          Update on draft-ietf-dnssd-push and draft-ietf-dnsop-session-signal
          Update on documents created before IETF 99
          Report on the DNSSD testing at the IETF 100 Hackathon
          Stuart Cheshire presented.
          There were no comments related to any of the status provided. It was
          noted this was a very fast 65 minutes of scheduled discussion, since it
          only lasted about 10 minutes.
          Ted Lemon presented.
          Toerless Eckert: Is there any insight that homenet might help to get
          more adoption of DNSSD?
          Stuart Cheshire / Ted: There may be some deployments happening.
          Stuart: Cautiously optimistic. Anecdotal evidence in Stuart's home shows
          adoption of multicast DNS.
          Toerless: The examples Stuart was giving aren't relevant to homenet
          specifically driving adoption. They would happen without homenet.
          Ted: Homenet is trying to make sure DNSSD works reliably in a home
          Mikael Abrahamsson: What homenet has is no professional management,
          and it's trying to define how devices trust each other in this unmanaged
          Stuart: Homenet works in more than one way. There are many different
          physical layer technologies in use. There is a need for relays and
          proxies in gateways. But we need the capabilities defined so they can
          exist even if some gateways don't get updated.
          Link to source code of dnssd relay implementation:
          Note that the work that was done on Saturday and Sunday hasn't been
          committed to the repo yet; I will do that before I leave Singapore,
          but might not be until Friday, because we had a hard stop and the code
          doesn't compile at the moment.
          Toerless Eckert presented.
          Toerless mentioned that a new updated set of slides will be uploaded in
          half an hour.
          Mikael channeled jabber room:  mic:  Slide 2 is unclear.  Are they
          saying link-local multicast is not available ? or merely that there is
          no multicast forwarding off-link.
          Toerless provided an answer which ran did not think answered the question:
          mic: did not answer the question.  Is link-local multicast available or
          not ?
           mic: if link-local multicast is not available, how does IPv6 ND work ?
          Brian Carpenter:
          Stuart: It would be helpful if you could provide some background as to
          what types of devices are these? How are they connected? 802.15.4?
          Toerless: Anima was designed to be a well-managed network.
          Stuart: When you're talking about well-managed, are we talking about
          really expensive routers?
          Toerless: Yes.
          Toerless and Stuart then proceeded to have a discussion to try to better
          understand anima and how it differs from homenet.
          Brian: Anima is for the "Plug-n-play" enterprise.
          This may help as background for Toerless's talk in progress:
          Back to the slides. Toerless picked up going through the slides again
          at this point, starting with slide 4.
          Stuart: Offer, Discover and Use are the 3 basic operations provided
          by dns-sd.
          Stuart: Having service instance names as a unique identifier should not
          be optional. They are designed for machine consumption, as well. If you
          don't use service names, then you need another hidden identifier.
          Toerless: Are "host-names" actually needed?
          Stuart: Host-names were basically inherited from the DNS SRV record
          format and are helpful if a device has multiple interfaces with multiple
          addresses, even across address families. Did not want to re-invent
          SRV records.
          Toerless resumes the presentation (slide 5).
          Stuart: Thanks Toerless for the presentation and expresses gratitude
          that anima adopted the same IANA registry values.
          Brian Carpenter: GRASP will in addition need its own IANA namespace for
          its own specific purposes.
          DNS-SD Privacy drafts
          Stuart Cheshire presented.
          Dave Robin: Do message lengths also reveal information? Do we need to
          add padding/randomness or something similar like other protocols do?
          Mikael: Could you provide examples to the email list?
          Stuart: Examples are not in the draft right now.
          David Schinazi: Should we be looking into privacy? It sounds like
          we should.
          Ted Lemon: We should probably ask for a hum to see what people think.
          Tim Wicinski: The only doc not yet adopted is
          Stuart: The authors of the other drafts said they would be ok to put
          some of the work on hold while we get more discussion.
          Aanchal Malhotra: Do the current drafts meet the goals for privacy?
          Stuart: I think they do not.
          Dave Thaler: Section 2 of the DNSSD privacy draft proves that this is
          interesting. Should the privacy considerations be put into their own
          document? Section 2 might not be sufficiently covering the subject
          of privacy.
          Alp Toker : Human rights issues are also important to consider here.
          Stuart agrees.
          David Schinazi: Should we be spending more time on privacy requirements?
          Humming is in favor of "yes". There were no hums against.
          Andrew: The humming for spending time was not very loud, so it would be
          good to know who is willing to work on it.
          Ted Lemon, Bernard Wolz, Andrew Sullivan, Alp Toker, Aanchal Malhotra
          raised their hands to volunteer to help work on this.
          Chair's Conclusion
          David summarized the meeting.
          Stuart: We would like to do work at the hackathon again in London and
          would like more people.

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